Max vs Raycus Vs IPG laser source

Raycus, Max Photonics and IPG are the best selling fibre laser sources in the world.  However it has been difficult to choose between them.  There is a lack of clear information about laser sources and how they compare for key parameters such as efficiency, weight, price, resistance to back reflection, lifetime and output loss over time (degradation).  Sales people trying to maximise profit have confused things, as some sales people do (I can say that because I was Powertrain Sales Manager for a German electronics company for 5 years).  It is not practical to test of all these parameters, particularly life.  However we can gather most of the required data from specifications, some general electronic/electrical studies, input from the suppliers and field exposure feedback, so read on.

We will be comparing IPG’s air cooled laser welder to our own equivalent unit, our current Max Photonics laser source MFSC-1500X(G5.8) and Raycus current model RFL-C1500 per the pdf specification on their website 29 April 2023.

Performance:  Which laser welder laser source welds the best?

They all do.  I have used IPG, JPT and Max and not noticed any major difference.  Subjectively, I feel our latest Max G5.8 sources are the best I’ve used, but setup differences and other factors make it harder to objectively compare.  A recent customer had trialled IPG and said ours welded better.  I am sure a Raycus welds fine, but I’ve not tried one because of the safety issue below.

Safety:  Are all fibre laser sources safe?

The current and recent Raycus sources are not fundamentally safe.  Australian Standard AS3820 is the over-arching electrical safety standard for most devices.  It then calls up other standards such as AS60335 which gets into a lot of detail.  I am disturbed by Raycus’s design which still has the water connections directly above the mains power connections, where they will leak directly on them.  Such obvious safety flaws contravene AS3820 and make Raycus’s design a deal breaker for us. However they are not the only one.  There is at least one lesser-known laser source which commits the same design sin.  With 20 years in system and product design, I say:  If they can’t get such a basic architectural issue right, how can they get the difficult parts of the design right?  As a result my confidence in Raycus is shattered. 

I have not actually seen IPG’s water connections, etc. but from exposure to the US NEC (NFPA70) and UL standards I have learned the US is quite rigid about safety and actually goes further than IEC/CE/EN/AS/GBT standards. 

1. Max and IPG have no obvious safety issues.  
2. Raycus in my opinion is badly designed and not safe.

Which is the most energy efficient laser source?

Fibre lasers are far more efficient than most, and improving with every new generation.  The older CO2 types and even the latest UV lasers are very inefficent.  Fibre laser efficiency is roughly linear with output, so we can compare the overall efficiency in use via current and voltage measurements at 100% power output. If required, we calculate the power of lasers running from single phase as Power = Amps x Volts x power factor, but power factor is close to 1 from what I’ve seen on other fibre lasers.  Based on this we can compare as follows:

IPG’s 1500W Lightwelder is rated at “220V <20A”.  Based on 100% power factor the efficiency is about 1500/(220×19) or 36%.  If we deduct fan/compressor current or 3A or so, the laser source itself is around 42% efficient.

Our Lightwelder15 is claimed to be up to 42% efficient, and we have measured it at 17Amps at full power, or 40%, which is excellent.  If we deduct amperage for the compressor running, like IPG we get around 42% per the specifcations.  We believe this model is a match for IPG but less than half the price of Lightweld 1500, as explained in other articles.

Max Photonics 1500W Gen 5.8 Max sources are rated at 18A peak which works out to 38% efficiency at 220V.  We measured the current at maximum power as 20.3A, which is an efficiency of 33.5%.  Either is good by fibre laser standards. 

Raycus’ website as of 29 April 2023 shows their CS laser source RFL-C1500 as 5500W.  Maybe it actually uses less, but 1.5kW output with 5.5kW input means 27.3% efficiency. I suspect it should be higher at around 30%, but still quite inferior to Max Photonics laser sources.  This wasted heat for Raycus also means higher chiller loads and potentially higher temperatures, which reduce life as discussed later.  

Energy efficiency ranking for 1500W laser welding sources:  

1. 42% Our Lightwelder15 air cooled laser welder AND 42% IPG’s Lightweld 1500 air cooled laser welder
2. 34% Max laser source as used in our new G5-1500WC welder
3. 27.3% (actually closer to 30%?) Raycus RFL-C1500 current data.

Which fibre laser source is the lightest?

1. At 53 kg, IPG Lightweld 1500 and our own Lightwelder15 are VERY light.
2. Max Photonics MFSC1500W Gen 5.8 weighs 32kg (our Gen 5 welders).
3. Raycus RFL C 1500 weighs “<40kg” which is heavy and surprisingly vague.

How long should a fibre laser source last?

The typical marketing claim is 100,000 hours, which is 108 years based on 4 hours of actual welding time per day x 230 days per year.  Even if we use the lower numbers I’ve seen 0f 20,000 to 50,000 this is still many years.  However laser development is ongoing, and in reality you will have replaced it with a smaller, more efficient model with new features after 10 years or so, which is 9,200 hours.  Or your forklift has driven over it, or a major product improvement, requiring a new one. The chiller has moving parts such as a pump and compressor, and that can be expected to fail before the laser source.  Also, laser sources do lose output over time, so after 10 years the output may have dropped too much.  You can buy a more powerful laser such as a 2000W to give extra headroom to allow for some power decrease over time.  With the lowest prices in Australia, we only charge $3k more for 2000W compared to 1500W, so it’s worth considering if you weld thick sheet metal or copper.

Which laser welder laser sources last the longest?

Let’s say that IPG has the longest life.  IPG says they do, and costs more than double the Chinese sources, so I guess it should!

For Max and Raycus we need to combine lots of information sources, such as this Chinese supplier’s comments:

“For Max, we use less so their price is higher than Raycus.
But in fact, Max is also good. Max is located in Shenzhen.  They are younger than Raycus, but now their market occupation is increasing.” and

“Is Max Photonics better than Raycus?
In fact, their quality is not much different.  3 years ago Max failure rate was much higher, but currently, highly improved.”

1. IPG
2. Raycus and Max

How much do laser sources degrade over time?

2.5% reduction in power output per year is the generally quoted number.  IPG has published data showing they have less degradation than this, and I don’t doubt it.

 We asked an industry expert in China about feedback on Max vs Raycus and IPG, and they said:

“I have discussed this issue with many engineers and answered other customers. The official data for Max, Raycus, and IPG should all be 100,000 hours (about 11 years). But I rarely meet customers whose lasers have been used for 11 years, and this data is experimental data. Usually the decay rate is 2.5% per year. Moreover, the lifetime will be affected by many factors, the environment (dust, temperature, humidity, etc.) As far as lasers made in China are concerned, some people say that the lifetime of JPT is longer, some people say that Max is longer, and some say People say that Raycus is easy to use. But from my own experience, the stability of Max used by all my customers is relatively good, and the lifetime is long enough.  I remember that I had an Australian client whose IPG module burned out after about 4 months of use. Because Australia is too hot in summer, they did not put the laser in the air-conditioned room, which caused the temperature to be too high.”

Personally, I have not noticed any degradation on our marking fibre laser (it is not Raycus) after 3 years of use, and the power output is critical for one job we do, so we would have observed it.  We’ve used our production laser welder for two years and have not noticed any power drop, however it is not used every day.  No one has data on this but I expect Raycus and Max to be similar, around 2.5% per year.  Note that both companies are continually improving their products, so even if we ran long term tests to measure the degradation, a new and improved model would have been release well before we got the final result.  We can only conclude with this ranking:

1. IPG
2. Max and Raycus

What are the failure modes for laser sources?

There are many possible failure modes of laser sources.  As with most devices, they follow a bathtub curve (which I learned about as my first job in the car industry, working on product failure investigation).  This means that failures occur early in life, such as the first 100 hours, due to manufacturing defects, or late in life where wear or cracking (yes, these can apply to electronics and optics too) evolve to such an exent they cause a cascading or large failure due to the high loads or power in a kilowatt laser.  This research paper goes into a lot of technical detail about failure modes, and makes you realise how complicated this topic is:  https://www.mdpi.com/2073-4352/12/6/765

The causes of performance degradation include mirror facet degradation (accelerated by back reflections if they occur), electrode degradation, packaging-related degradation, and environmental factors.

How to prevent failures?

Older laser sources have certainly failed prematurely, and examples of Raycus are prominent in search results, but this could also be because they are more common.  Fortunately the latest laser welding systems have sensors and a control system programmed to stop welding and log an error before damage occurs, or to contain the damage to one area such as the welding head and not allow it to cascade.  We choose only the best and most reliable parts for our Laser-welder.com.au models, so our welding heads have temperature and/or gas pressure sensors.  Max laser sources have protective features described at:  http://en.maxphotonics.com/Maintenance/22.html  Raycus will have similar features.

How does the power supply voltage affect laser source life?

Australia has a very high normal voltage.  We call it 240V, but the specification for single phase is 230V AC RMS +10% -6%, meaning it can reach 253V.  In Melbourne our mains voltage often sits around 248V.

In contrast, Chinese and US laser sources are designed/optimised for their domestic 220V RMS AC supplies, with a 5% or 20V tolerance generally.  As Australian supplies sit above this threshold, laser-welder.com.au sells voltage stabilisers (at a very attractive price) for our units to maintain the warranty.

A handy study by the University of Wollongong digs into this https://www.mdpi.com/1996-1073/15/4/1536 and concludes that the life of some components is reduced quite noticeably by Australian mains voltage. 

Does high temperature reduce the life of lasers?

The actual lifetime of laser diode modules is around 25,000 to 50,000 hours.  When laser diode temperatures rise above the maximum operating temperature, the laser diodes may degrade significantly, or even fail.  When a laser diode’s operating temperature is reduced by about ten degrees Celcius, the lifetime will statistically double, showing that overheating is a key factor in laser source durability.

HOWEVER, don’t go turning your chiller temperature down in summer, as this can cause condensation in the optics, and that can lead to rapid failure, which is why all laser manufacturers recommend not operating above 75 or 80 percent relative humidity.  Most laser source manufacturers recommend running the laser source 2-3 degrees C hotter in summer compared to winter, to reduce the temperature difference of the optics compared to the room temperature, to minimise the risk of condensation.  Similarly, most recommend not using the machine if the relative humidity is above 75 percent.

We can extend laser module lifetime significantly by keeping the case temperature near the bottom of the operating temperature band.  Laser source modules use heat sinks to do this and allow continuous operation. As discussed earlier, if we can operate the laser at the low end of the recommended voltage range this will also help to extend the lifetime of the laser.

What is back reflection?  Is it a problem with laser welders?

Laser cutters came first, and back reflection became an issue with them because the head is firing perpendicular to the metal being cut.  If piercing aluminium there is a lot of reflection bouncing directly back into the laser head, and even stainless or carbon steel produce substantial reflections.  In contrast, studies (and our experience) have shown laser welders perform best when held at 45 to 60 degrees to the weld surface (not 90 degrees like laser cutting).  Hence laser welders are seldom subjected to the punishing reflections a laser cutter experiences.  However they have many of the anti-reflection features that laser cutting sources have.  As such, we are not aware of back reflection problems with laser welders.

We could stop there, but someone selling Raycus sources has said Raycus is better than Max.  I asked industry experts in China about this and their feedback (for laser cutters, as the worst case) follows.  We discussed an article by Raycus on back reflection saying they have great features:

“The content of this article by Raycus is basically fooling customers. IPG’s anti-reflection is the best. We all know this, and the price is high. Raycus wrote some comparison tests in the article, which has nothing to do with the new QBH function. As long as the laser uses a semiconductor 915mm wavelength coupler, the anti-reflection function can be realized. On the contrary, customers can compare the QBH of Raycus and Max. The original design of Max’s QBH takes a larger space in the middle water flow part, and the water flow is larger, which eliminates the reflected temperature; secondly, in terms of optical design, Max’s optical crystal head is coupled and emitted in the form of flat-top light, so that the ability to reflect light is reduced, and the ability to eliminate it is also achieved. At the same time, it also reduces the reflection of light and burns optical modules and other devices; finally, In the quality inspection, The process is strictly controlled. After long-term copying test and inspection, when the test temperature is higher than 38 ℃, the laser is directly returned to the re-inspection department to resolutely control the quality to prevent problems in the later stage and take protective measures in advance. “

“When cutting some high-reflection materials, Max proposed a new solution to add an anti-reflection device above the cutting head. From this point, we can analyze that Max still has a cautious attitude towards back reflection problems. Raycus often has customer feedback that the module burns out. The usage of IPG is the best.”

Max back reflection countermeasures article from 2020:  http://en.maxphotonics.com/News/130.html

1.  IPG
2. Max and Raycus

What is the best value laser welding source?

Max is similar in price to Raycus, with the price mainly determined by the volume being ordered.  IPG is far more expensive, around double the cost.

We sell our Max units several thousands of dollars cheaper than anyone else in the Australian market (as of May 2023), and the comparisions above show Max is at least as good as Raycus, so we can certainly say Max is the best value on the Australian market.

Summary table and spider graph

Yes, we will add these charts when we get time.